UKMM's Chairman, George McAulay, takes petition to the Scottish Parliament : George was assisted by a separated and abused father, Gordon Ross, and a child victim, Hayley Forrester. The hearing was broadcast live on the SP's website, but the sound mysteriously failed. Here is a transcript of the hearing, and images below from the webcast of the hearing by the Committee, taken at about 10.45am on Tuesday 15 January 2002.
Here is George's first report :
We had prepared the ground with legal and moral argument both in the petition yesterday and our earlier one on PAS. This earlier petition is currently being considered by the Executive. Due to an administrative error (or skullduggery) we were not informed of the PCC meeting until after it had happened, so we were unable to make an address on our first petition.
Phil Gallie, who normally sits on the Committee, but was in New Zealand yesterday, advised me to think of some modification and submit it as a separate petition, which I did.
John Charville, Tony Hobbs and others updated me on Euro case law, which we at UKMM knew about, but there was a lack of communication in UKMM which would have resulted in perhaps a less effective legal arguement.
As Chairman, I carry the can for that, and I have resolved to do whatever we can to prevent it happening again. Thanks to John Charville for his (eventually!) brief and concise, but accurate pointers.
On the day, we went with as witnesses an alienated father, Gordon Ross, whose son is in the same class in the same school as my oldest boy, a 13 year-old girl, Hayley Forrester, living with her father Ronnie, (who also came). Haley is alienated by her mother from her two younger sisters. Margaret Mclaren, an alienated mother, travelled to observe and give moral support.
I deliberately avoided, both in my address and that of others, in going into facts and getting bogged down in detail, as they had all of that on paper. The notion was to hit them with the realisation of what they are charged with, legislating for the good of society, by showing them real people, and how they were hurting. When I sat down you could see by the body language of the committee how "anti" they were (most are feminists , know of me, and dislike me). I couldn't give a damn, but I did not want a dislike for me to harm the prospects of justice for many. One lists her "charity" connection in Doods Parlaimentary Companion as Women's Aid.
With a committee so composed, I wanted to hit them emotionally, using the pain of those present to do so. Legislation should be decided on reason, not emotion, but I wanted to break through the barrier in the way of reasoned thought by political correctness. We have tried logic, reason and facts for years, they are in our petition, but there is an emotional current flowing against us that has to be reversed. In addition, these people spend hours considering and have to legislate for, the drainage systems on Auchtermuchty, and other snore-inducing topics. We wanted them awake when they heard us, and committed when we had finished.
I planned to have start myself, confirm thier opinion of me, change the tack, then introduce the alienated father Gordon, followed by the girl, Hayley, daughter of Ronnie. I had a speech prepared, but I ended up winging it a bit. I hammed it up shamelessly.
I gave a brief, clipped address where I spoke of my military experience where I experienced the techniques of, and was trained to resist, interrogation and brianwashing, and aligned them (truthfully) with the techniques of the alienating abuser.
I changed tone, and changed posture, and told them of how my boy James, had come home from school and told me that Robert, Gordon's son (referred to as "Ronald" in my planned address for those who received it) had put his head down on his desk and cried his heart out. I told them how Sue Stirling had explained its meaning to me, and ended with a statement that they must end this. The body language of the Committee had change during the second half of my speech.
Gordon had been understandably affected by my speech, and he rose to address them.
He made his points well, but when it came to discussing Robert, he choked up.
Convenor McAllion and I exchanged looks of understanding and Hayley stood up.
She had only bullet points to refer to, but spoke tremendously well. When it came to the final time she saw her 5-year-old sister, she broke down, and ended her speech. Margaret McLaren was crying in the seats behind me. There was complete silence in the committee room for a full minute, Eventually Convener McAllion apologised for their silence, assuring Hayley that it was not because they were dismissive of her speech.
Gordon and I were subjected to a rigorous, and in my case, hostile cross-examination, Hayley a gentle one.
Winnie Ewing, a veteran politician and lawyer, questioned aspects of Gordon's claims re, his treatment by the courts, but Gordon had all the facts at his fingertips. He had recovered his composure, and was well able to make many good, irrefutable points. He managed to get over that both the courts and the Social Work Dept. failed to address the issue, and that, on a visit to SW (I accompanied him) to apply for a delivery order to save Robert from danger, the duty SW had admitted that SW was, as we charged, institutionally anti-male and sexist. That went down like a pork chop at a Jewish wedding with the committee, and we offered them the name of the SW.
Rhona Grant asked me what sanctions we proposed. I knew that, in defiance of their professed equality, this Parliament is committed to the lunatic notion that NO woman, no matter what her crime, should go to jail. I told her that in extreme cases, they would have to grasp this ideological nettle. I pointed out that they would not hesitate to jail a man for child abuse, and that, if they cared for children, they should not shirk from doing so with a woman abusing a child so cruelly. I also pointed out that early intervention through mainstreaming would make this unlikely.
I was asked what action I wanted Parliament to take, and countered by saying that what I proposed was irrelevant, as under European law, they, as the supreme legislature of the State, had the obligation to do whatever was necessary. I said that if one arm of the State, the Justiciary, was failing to provide protection for individuals, even if laws passed to ensure this were being misinterpreted by judges, it was up to them to draft new ones, or establish new procedures, or train judges, or whatever damn thing it took to do it.
I said we and others would be happy to advise them.
Gordon made a outstandingly good point "twenty years ago, child abuse was swept under the carpet because people did not want to acknowledge its existence - this is the same."
Winnie Ewing, who had been somewhat hostile to both Gordon and myself, at this point said to our delight "I think we are looking at legislation here, and it was mooted to tack something on to a private members bill".
The committee decided to pass on the Petiton to the Executive for comment, and it will no doubt go to the Justice Committee, which is the next hurdle. The Justice Committee will probably put it out to Consultation, please ask to be involved. After that, the next hurdle is getting a Bill voted on. Make no mistake, the feminists will muster all their considerable resources to sink this.
In conclusion :
Unfortunately once again the tyranny of "the best interests of the child" has inhibited reporting, as there are legal difficulties according to the Associated Press reporter who interviewed us. When we get to the Justice Committee, it will be better, our Petition Against False Rape Allegations was featured on Newsnight BBC News, On digital many radio stations did debates as well as reports, and Scottish and English newspapers. Publicity equals awareness, equals pressure to do right on politicians.
On a personal note, I used some pretty low tactics here; I used Gordon and Hayley and her father. Margaret came to support and I was glad she was reduced to tears. I used amateur dramatics in my speech. I shamelessly exploited the pain of people already cruelly tortured by a parent or a spouse, and by our courts, in order to galvanise this Committee into a commitment not to bury this petition as they would have liked to. I opened raw wounds in others and showed them to the world.
I'm sorry I had to do that, but I would do it again without hesitation, as to do otherwise is to condemn all present victims, and all future victims to suffer in silence.
Once again, many thanks to those who are helping with this, but in particular those victims whose wounds are exposed in this. I think they knew this had to be.
I am happy to say that both Gordon and Hayley are feeling better for the experience of fighting back, Ronnie is extremely proud of his daughter, and Margaret is still in there fighting. God bless them, and all who suffer.
| The hearing was broadcast live on the Scottish Parliament's
website. Good on them for such openness.
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George MaAulay :
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Gordon Ross :
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Public Petitions Committee in Committee Room 1 :
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Gordon Ross, George McAulay and Hayley Forrester presenting their case :
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The Committee Convener : |
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